"An alliance of unimaginable proportions"
Interview with Carlos López Avitia
Carlos Avitia was
the attorney for more than 60 residents of Lomas del Poleo between 2006
until June 19, 2008, when he was gunned down in the capital of
Chihuahua two blocks away from the Tribunal Agrario Unitario, the
agrarian state courthouse where he had just filed two cases that
morning related to Lomas del Poleo. He was shot in the head and neck
while driving his Ford Lobo by assassins bearing AK-47s. The bullets of
the high caliber weapons nearly decapitated him. The perpetrators were
seen driving a black Cherokee Jeep. The police have not identified any
suspects for the crime.
This
interview with Paso Del Sur took place after an open-air meeting in
Anapra, Juárez, between him and the residents of Lomas del Poleo
in the summer of 2007. It was the last public interview Lic. Carlos
Avitia gave.
by PDS
PDS: When and how
did you first decide to get directly involved with the residents of
Lomas del Poleo and become their legal advocate?
I felt the need to come down here to see what was going on. At first
I visited with about three different persons and by the third one
I thought what was happening here was rather horrendous. I made
the personal decision to come here to one of the meetings, and made a
commitment to take up their case.
PDS: When did you officially take the case?
We formally presented the lawsuit in 2006. February 2006 is when we
take up more than 100 agrarian cases. We had a file open already,
number 529 of 2005 that case had begun on October 2005. Officially, on
October 2006 we brought all the cases together. So we have all 2006 and
so far 2007 working on this. People have gone up to Chihuahua City
about three times to be part of the public agrarian court. We’re
getting ready to go up there again.
My main work, I feel, is not legal as much as it is human,
psychological. I am trying to change the inability of seeing success.
This is the most profound work. With Father Morton we’ve assumed
people’s pain, we’ve become one of them. This is not
something theoretical we see from a distance.
PDS: Are you working as a federal employee?
Yes I’m a federal public servant for the Procuraduria Agraria.
PDS: Have you had any pressure from within your organization for taking this case?
Yes, I’ve been pressured internally but it’s not worth
talking about it. Personally, I’m paying a price for defending
this. I’ve been fighting from the inside to remain part of this,
to be able to continue helping the people.
PDS: Can you talk about what motivates you to take up the cause of the colonos of Lomas del Poleo?
I’m a Christian, I’m a
believer. I’m very ambitious. It’s a lot more difficult to defend the
poor than to defend the powerful. I like challenges and obstacles.
Defending the powerful is too simple. But finding people who take the
side of the humble ... The people here have come to trust me because
I’ve paid the price of being part of a struggle that is very unequal.
It’s a struggle in which we won’t go far without faith. God gives me
strength. Just like a Father Morton [an American missionary priest who
was deported in 2006 for his advocacy work on behalf of the colonos],
he was a person I was inspired by to start what we’ve begun.
My
dream is to distribute these lands to the rightful inheritors, the
inheritors of the revolution. These lands are part of the social
heritage of those million souls who gave their lives to change this
country. I dream with having the wisdom to distribute a plot of land to
humble people who believe they don’t have a right to anything.
There’s
a larger social need to resolve this problem as well. Because if we
don’t in the future where there are other idle lands, more than one
rich man will come and try to become richer at the expense of others
again. I will work to make sure these lands are for those who have
nothing. Here is their inheritance.
PDS: Have you met either Manuel Balderas or Chacon Rojo, the legal representatives of Pedro and Jorge Zaragoza?
I’ve only met Chacon Rojo. He lacks any sense of ethics.
It’s easier to defend the rich even when they lack any argument.
I think my country is changing. Not every public servant dances to the
tune and lyrics of the rich and powerful.
PDS: Tell us about
the legal history of this land conflict. How many Lomas del Poleo
families are currently fighting for their land rights?
More than 100 cases are currently in litigation.
And if you look at all of this historically, you see that the issue is
ultimately much broader. We’re talking about more than 67,000
hectares of the plot of land known as La Carbonifera. On May 23, 1945,
the state government in a fraudulent and illegal manner, seized the
Carbonifera plot of land. They seized it as part of this legal farce
carried out by the state government because the property taxes had
supposedly “not been paid,” although they were exempt at
that time.
It was a privately owned company that was exempt from paying taxes on
the land.The public notary did not sign the legal documents. The state
treasure was a certain Mr. Bermudez, part of today’s well known
Bermudez family. And since that May 23, 1945 document, unsigned by the
public notary, there’s been a plethora of acts, antecedents,
acquisitions and other schemes that have confused the status of the
67,000 acres of the Carbonifera as property of the nation.
PDS: Now does La Carbonifera include Anapra, Lomas de Poleo and San Jeronimo?
Yes. It includes the 20,000 hectares acquired in San Jeronimo. It includes the lands of several very powerful families.
There’s a social intertia that stenches of rot among us here in
Mexico. It is time that we deal with these matters and bring them to
the light of justice.
PDS: The Zaragozas
argue that they acquired Anapra in 1963. Your argument is that they do
have a title but that this title is not valid?
Yes. People have asked me the same question in meetings before we took
up the cause of the people here, they would ask me, well, do they have
a title or not? The Zaragozas have a title, but it’s a
false one, one that is not legally valid. Yes, in 1963, Pedro
Zaragoza Vizcarra bought from Lauro Ortega Perea who in turned bought
from Bustamante de Maya, a woman, and the current Zaragoza got the land
from their father in 1998, there are some documents from public notary
office number 5. Pedro and Jorge Zaragoza Fuentes purchased from Pedro
Zaragoza Vizcarra, he buys it from Lauro Perea, who buys it from
Bustamante de Maya, she bought it from another, and all of this
chain leads to a Mr. Gutierrez de Anda who bought it from Eduardo
Arroyo Gonzalez, who declared himself the sole proprietor after that
farce carried out by the state government.
In 1945 Eduardo Arroyo sells 23,000 hectares to Gutierrez de Anda and
Geronimo Villegas and sells 23,000 hectares to a private owner by the
name of Simon. He originally bought 35,000 hectares, so how do you
explain that he sold 46,000?
PDS: So you’re saying there was fraud involved here. Zaragoza obtained lands whose boundaries were not clearly defined?
Yes. This was a fraudulent transaction.
PDS: The reason these lands were not clearly defined had to do with governmental incompetence or....
This is a problem, the problem of Carbonifera, Lomas de Poleo and all
these issues, are domestic problems. They involve historical documents
that any lawyer can base a legal argument on, that any citizen with
common sense has access to them. I as a lawyer discovered these
documents, that’s why we’ve focused with thoroughness on
the historical aspects of this matter, there are vast quantities of
certified acts we obtained through the Instituto Publico de la
Propiedad.
PDS: These documents show there is an overlap and confusion of the boundaries?
That’s correct.
PDS: Basically the Zaragozas were not legally buying what they thought they were buying back in 63.
This is basically what’s going on: Eduardo Arroyo Gonzalez buys
35,000, then he himself sells 46,000. Then, right after this, he sells
another 2,000 hectares to Gutierrez de Anda. Those 2,000 hectares that
today are in the hands of the Zaragozas, came from nowhere.
PDS: So you argue that this fraud was committed during transactions between private individuals?
Yes, with the intervention of public notaries and the Public Register that pretended nothing wrong was going on here.
PDS: In 1975 president Echeverria comes along and makes a decree concerning these lands. Could you explain this?
That document is very important. Its a decree made on February
12, 1975 published by the Diario Oficial de la Federacion that April
that declares 25,004 hectares as property of the nation. But those
25,000 hectares are immersed and mixed up with the 67,000 hectares.
Those 25,000 hectares, together with the 35,000 that Eduardo Arroyo
Gonzalez bought as part of that illegal farce are part of that 67,000
plot of land that we argue is property of the nation because they have
never left the dominion of the nation through an official title. There
have been registered documents obtained through a kind of inertial
situation, as if no one has ever been interested in looking beyond the
registered antecedents. But through our studies with come up with a
complete picture of the truth of the matter.
PDS: Could you talk
about the historical and political context of Echeverria’s
declaration of 25,000 hectares as property of the nation. Why did he do
this?
He was a good president who wanted to do the right thing. But the
previous governments, I’m talking about the 40s, when citizens
had even less education and awareness of their rights than
today...these government took advantage of public lands through
privileged information transferred them over to private individuals, in
this case, specifically Eduardo Arroyo Gonzalez.
PDS: Although the
Zaragozas have a document obtained in 1963, when president Echeverria
comes along in 1975 and declares these lands property of the nation he
gives everyone notice that this is going to happen. If we understand
correctly, Zaragoza at that time never showed up to claim that this was
his property.
That’s right. As part of that decree, there is a list of the
individuals who were notified that includes Pedro Zaragoza Viscarra.
They told him this is property of the nation but if you want to
challenge this legally you may do so. But he didn’t do anything.
PDS: Probably in those days he wasn’t interested in this plot of land because it wasn’t targeted for development.
That’s right. No one was interested in this land. These were
rocky lands, originally ejidos full of stones. No one was interested in
a single meter of land. Today you won’t be able to buy a 10 by 20
meter plot of land for less than 500,000 pesos.
PDS: When did the Zaragozas become aware that these lands were going to be valuable? More or less in what year?
About 12 years ago. When they realize that there is going to be an
international crossing. When the empresarios decide that growth will
take place in this direction. These are huge investors they plan to
turn this into a suburb that will revolutionize the image of Ciudad
Juarez. They are big plans where there will be huge investments. All of
a sudden they’re very interested in every last sand dune.
PDS: What is the first action that they carry out to supposedly reclaim these lands?
On August 26, 1998 in Public Notary Office #5 they attempt to register
738 hectares. Pedro Zaragoza Viscarra, of the 2000 hectares, sold 1000
to Sara Lugo. In the 60s I believe he sold them to Lugo. She
transferred them to Parque Industrial el Norte. But if we go back to
those original transactions one by one, we realize those lands never
left federal dominion.
PDS: It seems 2003
is an important year in the history of this conflict? [It’s the
same year William Sander’s Verde Group purchased 21,000 acres at
Santa Teresa and announced their master-planned binationalment project
in the area.]
In 2003, since the Zaragoza’s did not have have a single meter
under their possession, that’s when the Zaragozas begin for
the first time to physically claim property. This is the year of the
social blows, they begin to hammer the place and the people. In 2003
that’s when the police kicked them out. They come back. They buy
a piece of land. And that’s when they build there and set up the
concentration camp they have there now.
PDS: One legal
strategy is to claim that according to the Constitution anyone living
on a piece of land for 5 years or 10, depending on the circumstances,
legally becomes the owner. But you’ve opted not to use this
strategy?
No, because that is only applicable when the property is private. But
because it is property of the nation, article 169 of the current
Agrarian Law doesn’t apply. And that article is the same of
article 88 of the Law of Idle Lands of 1950 which also only applies if
the land is private.
Beyond this, the Zaragozas lost a civil case—case #1442 of 1992
of the 3rd Civil Court District. They lost a reclamation law suit
regarding Granjas Lomas de Poleo against the Asociacion Civil of the
time.
PDS: Why did they lose?
Pedro Zaragoza Viscarra lost because he didn’t know how to offer
the required expert valuations to define the boundaries of the land
plots. And this has set a precedent, now that they’ve lost.
PDS: So how does one explain the injunction the Zaragozas won in 2003 that cut off the electric service?
No one from Lomas de Poleo was present during that injunction hearing.
It was a completely fraudulent proceeding. Here is where the
responsibility of the federal judicial magistrate comes in, because
they had the power to order that the third parties who were going to be
harmed by this injunction be present so that they could speak in their
defense, but they didn’t do it. And this injunction
originated, case number 464 of 2003 resulted in cutting off electric
service. But the fraud consisted in that the Zaragozas claimed that
there were no parties who would be harmed by this injunction. The
judicial power accepted this twisted argument.
PDS: An official at
the Juárez Housing Authority Department claims he has been told
by a federal judge that he would rule in favor of the Zaragozas. Now
there seems to be a division among the federal courts and even behind
the scenes connections to the Zaragozas?
Yes. For example just at the city level there are hidden agendas and
conflict of interests involving caciques like the Zaragozas and local
authorities.
PDS: Any conflicts of interests or family relations between these authorities to those of the Department of Agrarian Reform?
Ah...well, maybe not by blood...but yes, Carlos Morales [Housing
Authority director] is the son-in-law of one of the officials of the
Agrarian Law Reform department ....and so on. And the Housing Authority
has always favored the private business interests in these struggles.
So now they want to claim that they’ve resolved the problem.
I’m currently engaged in litigation against the city stating that
the decision of whether or not these are federal lands is outside their
jurisdiction. The judge has already taken the case.
If they have news that a federal judge is going to rule their way, that
may or may not be the case. But if he rules in a manner that is against
the law we have the right of appeal.
PDS: What stage are you at in the legal process?
We’re at an advanced stage. I’d say we’re about 80
percent done. There is one case having to do with challenging the
Zaragoza documents that I previously talked about. The proceedings are
very advanced. We’ve already exhausted the expert valuations on
the topographical boundaries and examined all the documentation and it
is obvious that these lands are property of the nation. I’m
confident the Agrarian Court will rule in our favor because the
Department of Agrarian Reforms has not approved anything opposed to
this. Of course people are anxious about this because the sooner there
is a decision the better. Our argument is that these are federal lands
and regarding all the payments made to acquire these lands, it is
better that they go to the nation, than to obscure owners who make
false claims on these lands.
PDS: For a while the Zaragozas refused to show up in court. Have their attorneys finally showed up to the court proceedings?
Not until recently. But..yes..they’ve had to show their face. The
powerful aren’t that powerful when it comes down to it. First of
all, they don’t have the power to change history. Secondly, we
have confidence in the Agrarian courts because they were created to
carry out justice. We have the right to appeal if they don’t rule
in our favor. I they were to rule against us we still have many other
options we haven’t yet taken advantage of.
PDS: If the court
were to rule against you would you then take up the other legal
strategy that argues that even if the land is private property, the
constitution still gives residents the right of that land if
they’ can show they’ve been there for a five or ten year
period?
Exactly. That’s why we haven’t used up all our cartridges.
We know that the Zaragozas already lost that first trial. When they
themselves are appealing the “Revindicacion,” as this civil
proceeding is called in our country, they are implicitly recognizing
that the possession is not theirs. In fact it has never been their land.
PDS: The Zaragoza
family...there are reports that they were part of the Amigos de Fox and
this influence trafficking continues with the current president. Are
those reports correct?
Yes, we don’t ignore the fact that just as they make a lot of
money they also owe a lot. They owe a lot [in political payoffs]. If
they make millions of dollars, they also owe that.
PDS: They’ve
done everything they could to terrorize the people. Do you
believe that the burning of the two children inside their home,
Magdaleno and Maria del Carmen Casango, was an act committed by the
guards?
Yes, I do.
PDS: The city claims it was an accident caused by a electric short circuit. What evidence did you find to contradict this?
We were there working that day, there was no running electricity in that small home.
PDS: Although there were electric wires connected to it? The “diablitos” as they’re called.
Yes, there were wires, but the Zaragozas had managed to cut off the
electricity. It had a “diablito” (home made connection) but
at that moment there was no possibility of a short circuit. The
witnesses who were there say the fire burst forth simultaneously at all
four sides.
PDS: Did anyone witness anything showing the guards were part of this?
Witnesses saw two individuals walking.
PDS: That same day?
That same day, two persons were walking through that area. People heard
the children screaming. Some wanted to go in an save the children. But
the house was made of wood and carton. It burned immediately. The fire
grew from all of four sides. Those two individuals poured something
around the home and obviously if it’s gasoline all four sides
catch fire.
PDS: How has the media covered the conflict in Lomas del Poleo?
The media would never divulge the problem in all of its complexity. The
neighbors wanted their problem to be known but not with all of those
distortions. So I began by taking charge in this sense and stopped
talking to the media regarding our legal efforts. This is the first
interview I’ve given.
PDS: The methods
they use on this side border to carry out this land grab seem to be
drawn from a classic low intensity warfare manual...
Yes. Their techniques are very South American with their use of
misinformation and terror. Some of the Zaragoza guards used to be
members of the judiciales and they’re well versed in methods to
divide and discourage people.
PDS: When you come
up to the mesa you see eight crosses coming into Lomas de Poleo
commemorating the women whose bodies were found in this neighborhood in
1996. How do the femicides relate to what is going on currently
in Lomas del Poleo?
When you talk of the dead women of Juarez, everything goes toward
sensationalism when you talk about Lomas de Poleo. The murders were
committed some place else and the bodies were dumped here. They use
these lands to get rid of the bodies.
PDS: Rita Laura
Segato, a forensic anthropolgist from Brazil came to Juarez to
investigate the murders. She believes the choice of where the bodies
were dumped—the different empty lots such as Lomas del Poleo, the
Lote Bravo, the Cotton Field and later in 2003, the Cristo
Negro—is sending a very specific message, namely the message of
impunity.
Yes that makes sense. Undoubtedly these are very clear messages. It is
people who are above all the institutions. They can buy that impunity.
It’s an impunity that lives in the halls of power. It’s
more than a rumor. It is out in the open. These are groups with
absolute impunity and even the media has picked this up.
The message is clear: here no one else rules but us.
At first I believed that the strongest theory was that these were
serial murders committed by people from other parts. But the more I
look into this I’ve come to believe that these are being
committed by local families whose power is unimaginable. As long as we
do not not have courageous people who are willing to use the full
powers of the state this won’t stop.
PDS: This feels like a war zone here.
Yes, that links us to the world economy. All of our weapons are
fabricated in the United States. This contributes to deaths not only
here but in Central and South America. No one ignores the billions of
dollars the the United States gets for their arms sales. These weapons
are very easy to obtain, that’s also why we see so many shootings.
PDS: What kind of
harassment have you personally suffered surrounding this issue?
Obviously you’re up against huge interests here.
One day I suddenly received a blow to the head that left an open gash
on my eyebrow. I bled quite a lot. Some guy came up and hit me and it
opened my eyebrow. But beyond that, nothing.
There’s a lot of fear surrounding the guards, and I mean guards
in quotation marks, because really we’re talking about people
whose role is to intimidate those who are trying to resolve these
conflicts in a civilized way. That’s the harassment that
we’ve suffered.
PDS: Where were you when you received this blow? How did it happened?
After one of these meetings, I left in my truck and was giving a ride
to one of the señoras and I got out of the truck to open the
door for the señora who was going to get off there and as soon
as I had said goodbye, then, it was all very strange, I see this
guy, whom I’d be able to identify, but he hit me from my
blindside and the blow left an open gash on my eyebrow. I fell down, my
glass flew out, and then I stood up to ask for help.
PDS: And you feel this was related to this conflict?
(Nods.) I feel it has something to do with it...it was very strange....
PDS: Like you were being sent a message. Have you ever received any verbal messages, threats?
No. Never. Never. And I hope they never send me one.
PDS: Former Mexican
General Guajardo wrote a letter to the editor of a Juárez
newspaper asking how a paramilitary group in this city is allowed to
use weapons that only the military are allowed to bear, the AK-47s.
This is one example of impunity isn’t it?
Yes, this sense is one of the most unbearable aspect that people here
have suffered from. How is it possible that they are carrying these
weapons? We call the police and they do nothing. Why should we raise
the budget for either the municipal or federal police when they refuse
to protect the citizenry? They allow this impunity.
PDS: Have you seen the guards with AK-47s?
Yes. I’ve seen them shoot.
On August 17, 2005, at 5 pm an armed confrontation took place. Mr. Luis
Alberto Guerrero Rodriguez died, but two or three of the Zaragoza
guards died as well we think. During the melee they ran over one or two
people from their camp. There were bullets fired.
That’s why in our society there is so much lack of trust because
crimes take place, there’s an obvious... rancid sense of
impunity. And go ask the current prosecutor or assistant prosecutor
what they know about this, what they’ve investigated. I’d
like to know if they have the courage to summon Pedro or Jorge
Zaragoza, who have been investigated for influence trafficking.
They’ve been charged for failure to pay federal taxes.
If you add to these the rumors of drug smuggling...we’re talking about a thousand examples of impunity.
PDS: While
researching this issue what has surprised us that these powerful
Juárez groups have an incredible amount of impunity on both
sides of the border.
Yes, the existence of organized crime evidently takes place on both that side and this side. That’s clear.
PDS: If an American
entrepreneur comes here and wants to invest in these lands together
with an Eloy Vallina, say in San Jeronimo or with the Grupo Zaragoza in
Lomas del Poleo, and although he claims he’s doing everything
legally, do you think he too shares complicity for this social
dissolution?
You have people who are not satisfied with what they have but want that
of their neighbor. They see themselves as smarter than everyone else
and think having more and more is what is important. That’s part
of our era we live in lacking in social values. That’s why I call
these caciques we’re fighting against—the Zaragozas,
Vallinas, Urias—poor rich men. They aren’t happier than the
poor. It hurts them for poor people have an opportunity to walk without
them. And if a poor person sees a piece of land he wants they strip it
away.
PDS: We talked to
mayor Ruben Segura of Sunland Park whose is one of the main promoters
of the international crossing between that town and Anapra. He claims
he’s already put 8 million dollars in the bank to insure this. He
told us that he’s met with representatives of Zaragoza and he
also told us that he believes that the residents of Lomas de Poleo are
merely land speculators. In other words it’s the poor people, not
the rich, who are the speculators.
Yes, yes. Look, in the U.S. people are convinced that these are
squatters who invade properties. This view has been created by those
who have an interest in spreading this image. In reality, the people
here have possessed this land for more than thirty years.
PDS: Governor Bill
Richardson...It's not clear if he has met directly with or with
representatives of the Zaragozas, but it seems meetings have taken
place with Zaragoza representatives and his office to discuss the
crossing. What would you tell this governor who is now running for
president of the U.S.?
I would tell him that if he doesn’t change his strategy he will
not attain the presidency. It’s about adopting a concrete
strategy that benefits human beings and their rights. If his discourse
is not backed by real actions then no one will believe him. He will not
be succesful.
There are huge interests here. The border is clearly defined for
everyone but this little group of the super-powerful. For them its a
unified empire. Only they can set the price of this soil, here on this
side and there on that side. It’s an alliance of unimaginable
proportions.
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