Doña Ana County Commissioners Hearing:

February 26, 2008

Video Transcript:

Part I:

Commissioner Oscar Butler Vasquez:

We have a human crisis going on in Lomas del Poleo, which is a community and a parcel of land adjacent to Sunland Park...big development plans over there. But in the process of this development there’s some human rights violations going on, there’s some human suffering going on. Two children have been burned in their homes. Two adults have been assassinated. There’s civil exploitation. There’s civil injustice. There’s a gated community with barbed wire and guard dogs, and bats and guns and rifles, even though the weapons are outlawed in Mexico. Father Morton, who’s here today, was the minister of that community and his church was burned down. And now he’s living in El Paso, Texas because his life has been threatened.

Father Bill Morton:

I’m very happy to be here this morning and I have to say I feel at home. When I heard that beautiful prayer that was offered which makes me realize that there are people here who have faith, we believe in a higher power in one way or another. And what I heard as the core of that prayer is that public service is about creating communities of justice and peace.

I’m not here to say anything against development. I’m not a politician. I have no financial interest in what happens in Lomas del Poleo or here. But I am interested in justice, in human rights and that when you have development, everyone involved in the development, finds a seat at the table.
 
The reason we came to you as you can see on the map that is up on the wall that Lomas del Poleo sits right in the middle of a very huge multi-development project which involves a lot of federal, city, state people, private developers. And that piece of land is just across from Sunland Park. Where the cursor is [pointing on map]... that’s Lomas del Poleo. And you can see the northernmost part of that fronts on New Mexico. So this is really an international piece of property. It’s not just a piece of property that is a long distance from the U.S.
My involvement is that the pastor of the church of Anapra is part of my community, the Columban missionary fathers. We have four chapels and the chapel that I took care of was on the mesa—Jesus de Nazaret. So I had no knowledge of any land dispute or anything like that. I was just taking care of that community up there and then, lo and behold, one day the electric infrastructure was pulled out of the community. I became involved in the people’s situation and I just tried to support them and advocate for them.

From that time, that was in May 2003, there has been a program of low-intensity conflict to move the people out of there. The owners of the Grupo Zaragoza, in my eye-witness experience and living and working with this people, every single thing that has been done, has been done outside the law. It is illegal.  It is outside the Mexican law and the Mexican courts. They have used violence, intimidation, rumors. They have systematically, through corruption and bribery, dismantled a community in Lomas del Poleo. And I think that’s the greatest sin of all.

After they took the electricity out, they set up a group of vigilantes. The vigilantes were there for three weeks. The people formed a protest and went down to the city hall. The mayor sent the police that Friday. They arrested all the Zaragoza-paid guards. They were taken away.

They came back on Saint Patrick’s day 2004 and they came in through the back around Santa Teresa-San Jeronimo and at that point they set up what you see here (photograph of barbed-wire fence compound and guard tower). They got one square of land and they made these white cement posts. They came on Wednesday. Saturday morning when we woke up, they put these posts, sealed off the colonia and they had armed guards there. The people tried to tear the fence down. There were violent altercations. The police consistently refused to intervene. The city government refused to intervene. They had watch towers and they put these huge metal gates. You still had about 120 families living inside of here.

And in August of 2005, four men from the community, confronted the vigilante group who were knocking down a house. In that altercation, Luis Guerrero was beaten. And he died 36 hours later. At that point governor Reyes Baeza intervened and so did governor Richardson from New Mexico. He called state security in Chihuahua. Again they arrested the guards, but a couple of weeks later they were back again.

This picture [photo of Zaragoza vigilantes with sticks, chains and guard dogs] is the last time the human rights groups tried to go up to Anapra to meet with the people. This is what they were met with outside the gate. They wouldn’t let them near it.

This [photograph of vigilante leader] is a guy named Sergio, he’s the head of the guards up there.
These are [photo of gang members behind barbed-wire fence] some of the cholos that sit inside the fenced-in area that monitor the people.

This is the chapel [photo of demolished church]. Oscar, it wasn’t burnt down, it was knocked down by the paid-guards of the Zaragoza and we rebuilt it three days later— made it bigger and better.

This is Manuel whose house was knocked down. This is Luis Guerrero who was murdered. These are the two children, Magdaleno and Carmencita, whose house was burned down under very suspicious circumstances. And that last picture is just to show you, up in the mesa where that mile-marker is, [photo of international boundary marker #3] that’s how close Lomas del Poleo is to the port of entry. So if in discussing that issue, anyone who says the port of entry and the binational development is not related to Lomas del Poleo, that’s not true.

That’s Pedro Zaragoza [photo of Pedro Zaragoza Sr. and Jr. sitting with governor Reyes Baeza and Mayor Reyes Ferriz] and that’s governor Reyes Baeza at an opening of a Wal-Mart. And that’s just to show that a lot of these people know each other. And what we hope for is that there can be some influence between the people to stop this from happening. So if there’s any questions to me or if there’s any questions...we have a whole group of people both from Mexico and the U.S. who are well-informed.

Commissioner Chairman Kent Evans:

County commissioner McCamley.

Commissioner Bill McCamley:

Yeah, Father, I’ve been looking into this issue for the last three or four months. And I actually went and spent a pretty good amount of time talking with senator Bingaman’s people asking them about this. And their frustration was with the Mexican government. You know senator Bingaman has been very active in the femicides going on down there—has passed resolutions, has talked with the people from the embassy, so on and so forth. He doesn’t seem to be getting anywhere. They say it’s the same kind of issue down here. I mean...I know we want to ask governor Richardson to do something about this. This is a tragedy what is going on down there. What can be done to influence the governor of Chihuahua and the federal people to say, “Alright, look, you have a human rights issue right here.” How are we going to deal with this as we try to move forward as a region together?

Father Morton:

We have appealed to every level of the Mexican government. Dr. Soberanes, who is the head of the federal human rights commission in Mexico himself was refused entry into that gated area. He made a report and sent a recommendation to president Fox asking that the federal government intervene and there has been complete silence. I think part of the problem on the Mexican side is there’s a lot of influence between people of power, people of wealth, and government officials.

What I can see from the U.S. side is, if I’m going to be doing business with you, if I’m negotiating with you, if we both have something to gain, and I come to you and I say “You know, this is really a problem, this can throw a monkey wrench into the works. Development really can’t go forward if there’s the perception that land is being acquired through violence, through intimidation, even against your own laws. So I think there’s a kind of...just a human pressure that we can exert...an influence that we can exert. And we also have documents of binational agreements between the state of New Mexico and the State of Chihuahua. So there are some political agreements that are already in place.

But finally I think, knowledge of what is going on, and letting it be aired in public, causes someone who is inflicting harm on other people to restrain their hand. And that’s our hope. That there’ won’t be any more people harmed and that the people who are still there will be treated with respect. And that there will be some just and peaceful path to deal with the land conflict.

Commissioner McCamley:

I...I understand Father, I’m asking from a political situation because it seems like the Mexican government is the one that needs to step up to the plate here. And the frustration has been with the femicides. Obviously these women are getting killed. Obviously there’s been a lot of attention put on. Not much has been done. Obviously we have another situation here where people’s human rights are being violated. My question is...I mean through their organization...is it just...is the influence over there from the Zaragoza people too much? Or what?

Father Morton:

I think it is very strong. But I would go back to the idea in the case of the femicides, those who are perpetrating that, we really don’t want to have anything to do with them. We have no power or leverage to negotiate. In this case there’s a lot of interaction and relationship already, between the Zaragozas, between developers in El Paso, between the governor...

Commissioner McCamely:

[interrupts] How so, sir? See, this is the thing that I’m getting a little upset about because I have spent three to four months...there have been accusations that developers in El Paso are involved with Zaragoza. And I have found not one set organizational connection there. There were some allegations that Eloy Vallina who is on the board of the Verde Group was mixed up with these guys. I have been asking a lot of people, “Can someone define one set organizational relationship?”

Part II:

Father Morton:

I’m just saying you have very  wealthy, powerful people who obviously are meeting together. These border plans [points at binational development plan map], you know, those maps, the aerial photography, all these computer-generated photos, that’s not just something out of Grupo Zaragoza. This is stuff that people are sitting down together from both sides of the border talking about how can we improve the infrastructure here and the access back and forth across the border. So I’m saying, in that milieu, where business people are sitting down and they talk to each other, can people exert influence and say, let’s get the gates out of there.  Let’s get the guards out of there and try to resolve it. But I’m not making any acc...

Commissioner McCamley:

I understand sir. I just want to be very clear when we’re talking about this issue that we are specific in what our requests are here. I would not like to be...so and so is rich and powerful so they have something to do with this. I don’t think that’s fair.

Father Morton:

I’m not saying that any more than I’m saying governor Richardson is causing it.

Commissioner McCamley:

Right.

Father Morton:

But governor Richardson can intervene and call Reyes Baeza on the phone and say, “Hey compa, like what can we do about this? Let’s talk about this.” And Grupo Verde and other people involved in development, they know each other. They can talk to each other and try to influence each other for the good. So that at the end of the day all of you who are sitting here and me, when our kids say, hey how do you do development?

—Well you get land and make a plan. 
—So how do you get land?
—Well, you buy it.
—Oh, so did you buy the land in Lomas del Poleo?
—No, this is how we got it.

So we wouldn’t want anyone to think that we turned our back on that. Allowed it to happen. And any influence that we have I just say please, for the sake of the people up there, please use it to arrive at a peaceful and just solution.

Commissioner Karen Perez:

I think we would be naive if we thought that from this side of the border, or from our perspective, that we would have any ability whatsoever to track these business relationships. Any kind of...I’ll be polite and call it international business...is set up and structured in a certain way so that you cannot track it. Those relationships are not transparent, and that’s part of it. I lived in South America and Central America for many years and it’s a different set of rules. It’s a different set of rules. The government works in a certain way. Business works in a different way and I’ll leave it at that.
 
Commissioner Dolores Saldaña-Caviness:

I don’t think any of us can condone this type of situation. And please know that as representative of that district that I’m appalled. I really am appalled. I’ve been hearing about it but I also knew that Oscar was going to bring it forward so I said okay let me just hear them out. I’d like to meet with you. I’d like to go see the area.
This type of business, to me, I just can’t tolerate that. It’s not right. It’s just...I mean I don’t even have the words to explain how appalled I am. And again I want to go see the area. That’s home to me, Sunland Park is home to me. I will do everything within my power, if it means going and talking to both governors, to governor Richardson and governor...Is it Baeza? Is Mr. Baeza still the governor?

Father Morton:

Yes, Reyes Baeza.

Commissioner Dolores Saldaña-Caviness:

Going and talking to governor Baeza about intervening and stopping this violence and this injustice. [applause from the audience]

Commissioner Karen Perez:

I think we would be greatly remiss if we walked away today with just a statement of outrage. I think that the commission really needs to take an action. Let’s do it. Let’s not just sit and express our outrage. Let’s get down there. Let’s get down there very quickly. And let’s coordinate the people who have the knowledge and have done the research and that are already involved in the issue and keep the momentum going. This can’t wait until two meetings from now when we can pass a resolution. This can’t wait until we’re able to walk around and tour the area and see what’s going on. There are people out there without heat. There’s no electricity, there’s no heat. I’m assuming if there’s no electricity, the other necessities, water, sewer, infrastructure, is lacking. And this is a health violation, it’s a human violation. And it’s something that absolutely cannot continue at all.
 
So I would ask, and I’ll sit with my commissioners, whatever we need to do to make it legal, I’m getting head shaking down there because there’s a certain way we have to do it...to issue a letter that is a call to action to the people that are moving. And show that Doña Ana County isn’t going to sit on the sidelines. [Applause].

NMSU professor Dr. Neil Harvey:

On the NMSU campus last week we held a showing of a film called “Poleo Hablando” with the director of that film from Ciudad Juárez, Leon de la Rosa. And those in attendance, many signed a petition which I have here which ask for development projects to be held until human rights are guaranteed on the border. In the spirit of what we’re trying to get at here, we believe that human rights are fundamental for any kind of development to take place. And also from the community of Christ Church, the same petition that has been signed by members of that church.

Lomas del Poleo resident Aurelio Carranza:

My name is Aurelio Carranza and I’m originally from Zacatecas. I’ve lived in Lomas del Poleo for more than 35 years. My parents lived and died there and they passed on the property to me so that I could work the land. But now with the Zaragoza brothers coming, their men have continually harassed us and beat us. They won’t let us take anything into the neighborhood because they’ll shut the gates on us. The guards have beat my wife as well. We’re both elderly. We’re living a horrible life there in Lomas del Poleo. Their armed vigilante groups carry weapons, none of them are registered with the police. They use high-powered rifles but we can’t do anything about it. Sometimes we get there at night and the gate is locked. But if we tell them to hurry and open they get angry and attack us. They beat us if we say anything about it.

Lomas del Poleo resident Alfredo Piñon:

I’ve lived almost 40 years living in Lomas del Poleo. I’ve had the misfortune of seeing two children and a friend die. I was there when they burned dow the children’s home. I was there...I tried to open the door..it’s very hard to talk about it...but the most painful thing was when we found one child under the bed...and the other beside the door. One was four, the other three. Forgive me. I don’t know how to talk. But I’ve seen many things. What my neighbor said is just a small part of it. Many things have taken place, but I’m not educated enough to explain them to you. But I would want someone to tell you everything that happened.
 
The hardest thing is to watch your friend killed in front of you. or hear two children scream but not be able to do anything about it.

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